Behind the Bill: Illinois is the First in the Nation to Regulate AI in Mental Health with Rep. Bob Morgan

Khullani Abdullahi (00:00.92) Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Whenever you're listening to this, welcome to the AI in Chicago podcast. As always, I'm your host, Khullani Abdullahi, the founder of TechniAI, a Chicago-based governance risk and compliance strategy firm. AI in Chicago spotlights local operators, builders, and thinkers, as well as policy leaders who are scaling applied AI from their home base in Illinois, but with a global impact. Each episode delivers practical stories and actionable insights, empowering leaders to understand AI and its use cases, minus the hype. Today, I'm so pleased to welcome to the AI in Chicago podcast, Representative Bob Morgan. Representative Morgan, hi, thank you so much for taking the time. Rep. Bob Morgan (00:44.817) Hi, Kalani. Khullani Abdullahi (00:50.158) Representative Morgan is the current Illinois State Representative for the 58th District. He is recognized for his deep expertise in healthcare policy, regulatory compliance, and has a long history of public service and leadership. He has represented the district since 2019 and also serves as a partner at Benishlaw, where he advises businesses and healthcare organizations. on the evolving and complex regulatory issues at the both state and federal level. Representative Morgan's career spans both government and private sector roles. Before joining the Illinois House of Representatives, he served as general counsel for the Illinois Department of Public Health and a special counsel for a much shell-est. He held roles such as deputy general counsel for employee benefits at Illinois Central Management Services. He is a through and through Illinois-bred leader. He is a graduate of the Northern Illinois University College of Law, where he earned his Juris Doctor, and he holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Political Science from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. His educational background combined with his career in legal and policy development makes him a key voice in healthcare and regulatory issues in Illinois. He is of course also the architect of the Wellness and Oversight for Psychological Resources Act, which was signed into law on August 4th, 2025 by Governor Pritzker, making it the first AI and mental health law in the country and maybe in the world. Welcome Representative Morgan. Rep. Bob Morgan (02:29.522) Thanks, Kalani. Thanks for having me and it's a pleasure to talk about some of the issues that we're facing today and what we can expect coming down the pike. Khullani Abdullahi (02:38.036) Excellent. So I'd love to start with a little bit of your personal journey and your path into legislative leadership. What moment pulled you from the governor's healthcare team into elected office? How did your work on the Affordable Care Act shape your instincts to safeguard emerging tech? I think there's a broader story and narrative there to be told and I'd love for you to start there. Rep. Bob Morgan (03:04.369) Thank you. That is very interesting. When I try and think about my life and my journey, I've always been in healthcare. I've been a healthcare attorney since I graduated from law school. so every responsibility and job I've had professionally and personally, it's always going back and harking back to this experience in healthcare. I worked in state government in Illinois for about six years. And as you mentioned, a number of different jobs, first dealing with employee benefits and health insurance. during the Affordable Care Act implementation, which was a wild time in the healthcare space. So many new things, so many questions about what this meant and how this was gonna impact people, businesses, institutions, and laws. And I was really there, really fortuitously, just coincidence, happened to have been a healthcare lawyer at the state of Illinois at that time. I then went on to work in the governor's office under former Illinois governor Pat Quinn. Khullani Abdullahi (03:48.718) All Khullani Abdullahi (03:57.368) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (04:02.331) to be his healthcare lawyer at a time where again, so much uncertainty and changes all the time, but the way that we implement pay for and support healthcare, the changes in health insurance and creating this new marketplace at the federal level, creating much more insurance coverage than we had had for those who had been uninsured, expanding healthcare to seniors, making sure that the Department of Public Health was expanding its coverage on a variety of new new public health challenges. was general counsel at IDPH during Ebola crisis. So when we think about pandemics, at the time we were creating these new institutions for communicable disease preparation, things that today people understand what that means. But at the time when we were getting calls from the CDC asking about isolation rooms at O'Hare airport, these were new novel challenges. And so I've learned a lot over the years. Khullani Abdullahi (04:37.57) Wow. Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (05:00.88) about myself and the things that I can do and the challenges that I enjoy professionally, but also just the way the healthcare impacts everyone. And that has been the throughput, the constant in my career. Left state government, we had to change an administration in 2015, Illinois elected Republican Governor Bruce Rauner. I was kept on in that role as general counsel of IDPH and in charge at the time of the Illinois Medical Cannabis Program. Khullani Abdullahi (05:16.675) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (05:29.326) Mm-hmm. Rep. Bob Morgan (05:29.616) which I helped establish the medical cannabis program in Illinois. But with the new administration, there new priorities and I went to private law practice. And so I did that for a few years, again, in the healthcare context, learning lot more about healthcare and the healthcare business, the challenges that hospitals and physician groups and insurance companies and everybody in between were facing in that moment. And then with the presidential administration change. Khullani Abdullahi (05:36.248) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (05:41.206) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (05:45.112) Right? Rep. Bob Morgan (05:56.98) when President Trump in his first term, specifically it was the Trump travel ban. That was what motivated me to run for office. As many of us are, I come from a family of immigrants. My great grandparents were killed in the Holocaust because of immigration policy that closed the borders right before World War II. And those choices that the country made, that the government made, impacted my family. And so when I saw it happening again, that was Khullani Abdullahi (06:03.052) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (06:11.938) Yeah. Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (06:22.862) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (06:26.096) specific moment where I realized I I wanted to do something about it. I really wanted to see the change and be the change that I wanted to see in the world. And the famous Gandhi quote and went into state government in 2019. That was a very busy year. was governor Pritzker's first year as well. The two of us came into government at the same time with a variety of my colleagues. And then 2020 was going to be a quiet year. And then it wasn't. Khullani Abdullahi (06:50.036) Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (06:52.72) And I spent much of 2020, 2021, 2022, again, really in the center of this very volatile time in healthcare and redefining what it meant to be safe and how the government can help protect people. Everything from vaccinations to all the assortment of the way healthcare professionals are in the front line of keeping people safe and alive, despite what we might hear today about how vaccine. Khullani Abdullahi (07:17.164) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (07:21.295) might be unsafe and killing people. I think that it was a really interesting time. that again, that kind of led to 2023, 2024, where I started to really pay attention to the emerging technology, in particular the way AI was playing in healthcare. And that really is not so brief way, but a little bit of a description of kind of how I got to be here. Khullani Abdullahi (07:28.706) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (07:45.242) Yeah. I think that's an excellent set of remarks because it dovetails very well with the next set of questions that I know people have been thinking about. So I'll just take a moment. Do you remember the Cambridge Analytica hearings on Capitol Hill where the executives of the technology companies were testifying? And what we saw was a stark disconnect. and the ability of elected officials to understand not just the technology or its implications, but even the terminology. So I'm proud to be a resident of Illinois where our elected officials understand the technology, the terminology, its implications to the degree that they can even effectively regulate or think about regulation. So I have a question about you and the way that your journey has shaped your ability Rep. Bob Morgan (08:22.616) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (08:41.89) to become fluent in these emerging technologies and then to create a coalition and educate your colleagues and upgrade in some ways the way that Illinois elected officials think about these technologies and their role. So what was the moment where you thought, AI is going, unless I do something, unless I propose a change, AI is going to be used in ways that can harm my constituents and the residents of my state. What was that moment like? Rep. Bob Morgan (09:12.91) Well, it'd be important to note that I came out of the generation of watching Terminator movies. And so as ridiculous as it sounds, and my staff would attest to this, really do have this arguably irrational concern that machines are going to take over. we saw that at a time where it very theoretical. What I started to recognize Khullani Abdullahi (09:19.288) Good to know. Khullani Abdullahi (09:30.594) Very rational. Khullani Abdullahi (09:37.432) Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (09:40.398) probably four or five years ago was our technology was advancing it. And again, big asterisk that whether it's myself or state legislators or governors or presidents, legislators and regulators and elected officials are always behind on technology regulation. And that's in the best case scenario, if we understand what the technology is, we, we struggle. passed laws over multiple years and technology advances in weeks and months. And Khullani Abdullahi (09:55.348) Agreed. Right. Yes, right. Rep. Bob Morgan (10:10.254) Sometimes that technology advancement and the evolution of that can be incredibly helpful. The ways in which we don't create a healthcare innovation doesn't require an immediate approval before it can undertake technology for virtual reality in heart surgery or whatever you want to talk about, right? Any kind of technology that's literally saving lives. I think again, it's really important to say, Khullani Abdullahi (10:28.808) Right. Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (10:37.56) technology and AI has a lot of really important and potentially life-saving utilization uses. That's important, right? And if anybody's going to come and approach that AI is bad, you know, that's not how I feel. And I think if you approach it that way, you're not being a serious elected official. And I also come about it, again, based on just all the things I mentioned, I come about it from the perspective that industry can and should innovate. and expand and reach areas that a regulator like me would never dream of thinking how we could help people and how it can work. And state government and regulation and federal law sometimes has to step in to protect people, particularly in health care. We regulate doctors and nurses. We regulate who can administer and prescribe controlled substances. We regulate the production of drugs and pharmaceuticals. because these are life and death things, right? If I get a box of Cheerios that is not up to code and that Cheerio has stale yeast and I get a little sick from it, it's generally not gonna kill me, right? So we started talking about food regulation. It's serious. Certainly salmonella and things like that. When you start talking medical equipment and just making sure that it's safe and sterilized, we start talking about hospitals and the ways that Khullani Abdullahi (11:48.632) Bye. Rep. Bob Morgan (12:05.009) We regulate who can perform surgeries and who can prescribe these things. That's when I start to pay attention more. Cause again, then you're talking life and death. and when I started to see AI insert itself and be utilized in a variety of healthcare contexts, I really started trying to educate myself and think two steps ahead because I knew that the, the innovation and startup world was 10 steps ahead of me. And so you, again, you have to recognize your role in the world. Khullani Abdullahi (12:24.738) Right? Rep. Bob Morgan (12:34.381) I was catching up and thinking about these things at the same time that these innovations and inventions had already happened. And so that was my thought process over the last few years. Khullani Abdullahi (12:42.894) All right. Tell me, I don't think it's a controversial statement to say that as a nation, we are behind the curve on legislating and regulating AI. And I think the technology companies have been very effective in having their point of view represented in national policy such that in the US, we don't have a national AI law or regulatory framework. We have recommendations. But that's as far as we've gone, whereas in other parts of the world, in Europe in particular, they've been much more intentional and thoughtful at the national and regional level building that. in America, it's clear that states are going to have an outsized role in AI regulation and policy development. As you went through this process and crafted and architected this bill, what did it take to bridge the gaps and various understandings among the different stakeholders, whether it was among your own party, the Republicans in the House, the tech companies. I'm sure you got a lot of phone calls from people who are developing AI healthcare apps, constituents, whether it's doctors or hospitals or regular everyday people. What did those conversations look like? Because I want people to understand what it took to regulate AI at the state level, how long was it, right, how long did it take, etc. Can you walk us through those details? Rep. Bob Morgan (14:23.062) Our legislative session in Illinois, like a lot of states, starts in January and it ends in May. So our legislative world begins and ends January through May. There's a couple weeks that we'll go back. I'll actually go back mid-October for a few weeks. We call it veto session. But the bulk of the work happens in April and May every year. And then we're out of session. Again, just another illustration of the inflexibility of governance. versus the real world where, you know, startups don't quit on June 1 and then wait for the legislature to come back, right? So when we started in January, this issue was first raised to me in December of 2024. So right before we started the spring session, I got a call from the National Association of Social Workers. At the time, I had at that point spent over a year focusing on talking about developing legislation around Khullani Abdullahi (14:51.798) Yes. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (14:56.789) No, no. Rep. Bob Morgan (15:20.061) AI and health insurance. I've been really focused for the last couple of years on the way that AI is new and novel and should have some guardrails and regulation around when your insurance claim is approved or denied. This is not a new concept because for decades insurance companies have used an algorithm and a computer system to look at millions of claims, right? That's not a new concept. Khullani Abdullahi (15:36.643) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (15:43.63) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (15:47.138) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (15:48.703) and I was concerned and still am, that AI was different. And I had some subject matter hearings over a year ago, drafted legislation, and I was really focused on that. That legislation, in fact, did pass the Illinois House, but hasn't passed the Senate. So if you had asked me in January, just nine months ago, what is the big bill gonna be this year for you and AI, I would have said health insurance. And when the National Association of Social Workers brought that legislation to me, I had no idea. Khullani Abdullahi (15:52.588) right. Khullani Abdullahi (15:59.459) way. Khullani Abdullahi (16:04.429) right? Khullani Abdullahi (16:09.742) I would Rep. Bob Morgan (16:17.748) that in that time between when I first heard about it and when we passed the law, we would see story after story after story and hear anecdote after anecdote of individuals that were negatively impacted by AI therapists and therapy bots. I didn't know that. And again, just an illustration of we have a legislative timeline and how things usually take years to pass laws, that's typical. And then in just a few months, Khullani Abdullahi (16:33.12) Yes, yes. Khullani Abdullahi (16:40.278) Yes. Right, right. Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (16:45.982) the narrative and the urgency really took hold. I think because I was talking a lot about health insurance and AI as opposed to mental health and AI, I didn't get a ton of attention about this legislation. It was only after we passed it out of the Illinois House and then the Illinois Senate was very clearly going to be moving this legislation and passing it back to me to send back to the governor, send on to the governor, that we started to get some calls and attention. Khullani Abdullahi (16:49.303) and bright. Khullani Abdullahi (17:14.475) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (17:16.366) And again, I think the urgency was felt more by the week as we started to see story after story of real life implications of how AI was inserting itself and individuals were seeking AI. If we're going to be really accurate about how this is playing out, they're looking for help and they're utilizing a tool that has a lot of power over an individual's choices and that the state had a role there that up until that point, Khullani Abdullahi (17:23.81) Yes. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (17:30.444) Yes. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (17:41.112) Right. Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (17:45.063) had no jurisdiction or oversight over it. Khullani Abdullahi (17:47.372) Right. think it's a, I want to pull on this thread that I think is very important for people to recognize, which is that we don't have to assume that people will die if chat bots act as therapists. We've seen it happen and we're seeing it happen in very, very young populations as people who are as young as 12 or 13. And that is not even in the chat bots that advertise themselves in just working in mental health. The general purpose technology itself will operate as if it is an expert in this space. And we've seen young people in particular interface with it and outsource the decision whether to live or die or how to kill themselves, right? And so I think what you're pointing to is that like the work that you were doing is very much tied to how we're seeing youth emerge and use these technologies, even in the general purpose context. Now your bill in particular is more narrow than the general purpose technologies. I believe it is the foundation for us being able to think about regulating elements of general purpose technologies. We just saw OpenAI recently get sued by the parents of a 17 year old who was told to commit suicide. from just a general chat GPT version, can you tell our audience what the Wellness and Oversight of Psychological Resources Act permits, what it does not permit, and give people a concrete understanding of kind of the guardrails that you built. Rep. Bob Morgan (19:35.048) You did a great job of providing how broad this can be. The intention here was really focused on mental health professionals. And the best way I would describe it is it's not a new concept. In fact, it's a very old concept in Illinois, in every state, that the states regulate health care professionals. So if you want to go have a tooth extracted, Khullani Abdullahi (19:40.526) Mm-hmm. Rep. Bob Morgan (20:01.729) or get tested for vision and eyesight to get contact lenses. If you go into a donut shop that says, we'll help you extract your tooth, we don't let a baker who's not otherwise medically trained start doing dental extraction. So the reason is it's not safe. They're not trained to do it. And we are talking about some elevated state level risks and legislative responsibility for public wellness and healthcare. Alright so again this is not new. I think generally we all kind of understand implicitly that if somebody advertises that they're a doctor and they never went to med school and all they ever did was they got a certificate online, nobody wants that. So that's not new, that's not novel concept in Illinois or any state. So that was the premise of what we've done here. We are focusing on mental health professionals. And it's not so simple. We have to acknowledge this is a moment where people don't know how to get to the healthcare professionals. Insurance makes it really hard to figure out who's insured, who's covered, where to go. Some people are calling for help and they're saying, well, we'll see you in seven to 10 months for an acute mental health crisis. That's not gonna work. So we have to acknowledge this is not so simple and binary of. Khullani Abdullahi (21:06.616) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (21:13.216) Yeah. Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (21:21.672) You know, there are all these social workers and psychologists who are just waiting to help people. And there's huge opportunities, every block for someone to get resources that they need. This is because people are turning to, to, help. They need help. have a mental health crisis in the country. It's real. And we have to acknowledge that our systems aren't built to help people where they're at. And as people are more and more in their phones and their devices, this is inevitable result. So, um, Khullani Abdullahi (21:34.977) Right, right. Rep. Bob Morgan (21:50.713) When you talk about that, you also have to acknowledge that there are places where it starts to verge on serious human health, serious human health risks. And that's what we were trying to get at. So we're talking about mental health professionals and the work to otherwise is limited to them. Somebody who is trained, somebody who has the right education that the state demands and dictates, and somebody who is licensed. So somebody who Khullani Abdullahi (22:00.642) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (22:12.6) The state demands dictates. Rep. Bob Morgan (22:19.036) has some kind of contact with the state depending on their license and what it requires. The state of Illinois has a particular interest. The doctor is a doctor and a nurse is a nurse and a social worker is a social worker. And if you get beyond that, I believe, and I think every state has systems in place to really enforce this, we exclude others and we have enforcement against those that pretend to be something they're not. And that's what this bill is about. Khullani Abdullahi (22:29.794) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (22:43.566) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (22:48.689) about general use AI, general purpose AI. Now, that is very simple for me to say. So who is the target here? The target is somebody who, a company that designs an entire system and an app to advertise and market itself as a licensed professional of some kind when it's not. If Bob Morgan is a licensed social worker and I pay for ads, Khullani Abdullahi (22:55.63) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (23:09.835) Right. Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (23:17.031) on Facebook to say, if you need mental health, come see Bob Morgan. I'm a licensed social worker. And if I mess up, or if I hurt people, or I target people, or I no longer am licensed for any number of reasons, the state already, a year ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, could come after me personally. And again, that's the gap that we're covering here. We're creating more coverage for individuals because like you said, this is not theoretical anymore. This is absolutely happening. Khullani Abdullahi (23:20.813) Come to me. Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (23:43.959) Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (23:45.67) And we're really trying to mitigate that and make sure that if you need mental health, that you're going to somebody and a person who can help you and can do it safely. Khullani Abdullahi (23:58.06) I do think it's important to point out that you're not regulating out the ability of licensed professionals and healthcare organizations who provide mental health services to use AI to augment and improve operational efficiency or workflow with respect to administrative support. Can you talk a little bit about this, you know, this recognition of the role of innovation in improving and increasing the bandwidth of these constrained mental health resources we do have in this country and this kind of carve out that you've built so that people can understand when and where AI is not harmful but can drive efficiencies and improve bandwidth constraints. Rep. Bob Morgan (24:49.413) Absolutely. And in some ways, I think that's where the next stage of this is going to play out. Because I start with the premise and end with premise that I trust licensed health care professionals. You're again, social worker, licensed clinical social worker or a behavioral health specialist or somebody who has gone through training and licensure and education. I trust you to make the decision to use technology in a way that's consistent with your license. A doctor Khullani Abdullahi (24:54.625) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (25:18.714) can transcribe his or her notes and have AI help them transcribe those notes into billing software to submit that bill to insurance, or can use AI to transcribe a prescription that the physician then looks at and signs. So we're already using technology. This is real world stuff. It's happening all the time. That should continue because I'm trusting the healthcare professional to do what they're supposed to do. Nobody's perfect. Khullani Abdullahi (25:36.129) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (25:47.173) The system's not perfect. Physicians make mistakes. Healthcare professionals make mistakes. That's also inherent in the system. But I trust the individual professional to care for me and my family in the state. And so they can use AI in note taking. They can use AI for medical research, right? It is very common. have, again, just saying in the mental health context, somebody presents a particular set of risks. and different categories that are part of the different medical definitions and clinical diagnoses and all the different technical terms about that that a healthcare professional knows and uses on daily basis. They can turn to AI or any kind of technology to help them figure out the right diagnosis, prescription, set of clinical recommendations. The professional's always responsible for that though. Khullani Abdullahi (26:30.218) Right? Right. Khullani Abdullahi (26:43.086) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (26:43.99) It's that last piece that if AI or Bob Morgan is a non-licensed professional, healthcare professionals doing something, using AI to dictate notes and then use those notes to care for someone when I'm not licensed to do it. You have to have the person at the end of the day, whether it's again, health insurance claim denial or somebody who is clinically diagnosing and treating somebody. You have to have a person. Khullani Abdullahi (27:01.462) Yeah. Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (27:11.905) And that is that's the simplest way to describe this. So if there there are variety of technologies that can support those professionals continue to use them and there will be new things tomorrow. Between the time we're taking this interview and when somebody watches this interview, there's gonna be a new technology that's helping a health care professional care for somebody. Telehealth, telemedicine, great example, right? That existed before COVID, but it became ubiquitous during COVID. And there were a lot of people that were concerned about Khullani Abdullahi (27:14.761) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (27:22.285) Right. If yes. Khullani Abdullahi (27:32.064) Right, right, right. Khullani Abdullahi (27:37.774) It did. Rep. Bob Morgan (27:40.548) virtual technology and telehealth, telemedicine, not being as accurate or not resulting in positive medical outcomes. But in that situation, you had a person involved in all that care, a licensed person. And what we found is that's an incredible way to reach people when geography stands in the way. And this is no different from that. Khullani Abdullahi (28:01.762) Right. Absolutely. There's some value, I think, in people hearing about and thinking about when people reached out to you and they were detractors of your bill or they disagreed with the initiative, what were their concerns? And how did you and your colleagues kind of rally around the alternate position? So what were those dominant, Bob, this is a terrible bill. What were you thinking? buckets did those concerns fall in? Rep. Bob Morgan (28:34.787) Yeah, from my colleagues, so there are 178 members of the Illinois General Assembly senators and representatives. We come from different backgrounds and literally none of us come from AI tech, right? So just like any issue we are learning, I would argue I know more than most of my colleagues, but I'm not the foremost expert. I have colleagues in other states who are legislators who know far more about AI than I do, right? We're always trying to learn. Khullani Abdullahi (28:44.248) cats. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (28:53.229) Yes Rep. Bob Morgan (29:02.792) So from a starter, from the get go, have to acknowledge that I always have to learn more. We all do. There were two categories of those who had concerns about the bills, about the bill as it was drafted and as we went through this. were, I would say, broad-based technology companies that are utilizing AI in any number of ways. And they Khullani Abdullahi (29:24.152) Mm-hmm. Rep. Bob Morgan (29:29.987) I viewed their concerns as approaching it sincerely and trying to continue to do what they do with good intentions, with the acknowledgement that they have obligations as a tech company that are developing a variety of technologies in our lives that are utilizing AI increasingly in their software and their platforms that they wanted to continue to innovate. And they also want to make sure you don't got hurt. Khullani Abdullahi (29:42.893) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (29:59.751) so that plays out. could spend days talking about all the different companies that came our way with a lot of different concerns. That was category one. And, and I think that this law, from my perspective as someone who's drafted laws before, was litigated on laws who worked in state government. I think we did a pretty good job staying narrow as you described, like this was pretty focused. It carves out anything and everything we heard about that really wasn't the target of our worries. Khullani Abdullahi (30:02.606) Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (30:29.006) The second category were those startups and those entities that were explicitly focused on doing what we were trying to stop. They were AI therapy bot apps. I don't consider those, I mean, I think that those entities were looking at this as an existential question and I get it. And I also think that they're asking questions that are appropriate questions to debate and discuss. Khullani Abdullahi (30:35.938) Yes. Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (30:49.504) Yes, yes. Rep. Bob Morgan (30:58.657) And it's also my job to parse through that and identify times where innovation has risks and what is the role of government to step in there to allow innovation to continue, but also put the guardrails in, which up until, like you said, in early August, we didn't have that guardrail on AI and mental health. And that was what I was trying to accomplish over the last couple of months. Khullani Abdullahi (31:04.802) Right. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (31:15.254) Right. It sounds like your internal conversations among those 178 members of the General Assembly, that sounds like it was an easier conversation to have than it was with the outside external stakeholders. Is that fair? Rep. Bob Morgan (31:38.827) Yes, and AI has come up in a lot of contexts. It's, of course, one of the biggest topics in our world at the moment. And it's coming up in the context of education, context in terms of, of course, national security. Again, I mentioned Terminator, you know, like where my mindset of irrational fear about... Khullani Abdullahi (31:48.238) Right, right, right. Khullani Abdullahi (31:57.676) to appear. Khullani Abdullahi (32:02.799) I think it's rational. Rep. Bob Morgan (32:05.97) story after story about our national security infrastructure and AI. I think that my colleagues are aware of the presence of AI. I don't think a lot of them are really intensely focused on the issue. Just like I'm not spending most of my time on transit or labor negotiations or different topics within our legislature that we deal with all the time. I'm on one education committee Khullani Abdullahi (32:07.372) with, yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (32:15.563) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (32:19.224) Okay. Khullani Abdullahi (32:24.555) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (32:34.252) but there's education funding. There's a lot of other issues that we all rely on our colleagues to step in on. So I have several colleagues who also are talking about AI and technology, but vast majority are not and will defer to me and my colleagues, but also are looking to the associations and outside lobbyists and entities to inform them on this is good, this is bad, this could impact us if written like this. If this. portion is deleted, we'll be okay with it. And then to make their own decisions of, well, I understand AI Therapy Bot that you want to continue your company, but I understand what Representative Morgan is talking about, about the risk to society and my constituents in my state. And so we're going to go in that direction. And that's, again, apples to apples and so many different bills where we are talking about a lot of different topics and we can Khullani Abdullahi (33:11.342) Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (33:31.711) disagree on that as colleagues, as legislators. And on AI, there's a broad recognition that is, it is in some way similar to other challenges we faced before, just like other technology evolution. Again, like the fact that an insurance company is using computers, in this case, AI, to approve or deny claims, it's not new. But AI to me, when you're talking about healthcare contacts and life and death decisions, That's when I think it's different. Khullani Abdullahi (34:03.278) It is. Illinois is the first state of its kind to regulate AI and healthcare. As I mentioned earlier, we don't have a national AI bill. I imagine other legislators, state legislators, other governors are looking to Illinois, maybe as a bellwether, as a model state for regulating in this space. What feedback guidance information, recommendations do you have for other similarly situated legislators who are thinking that they're going to maybe address AI in some industry in their own backyard in their next legislative session. Rep. Bob Morgan (34:51.296) We are definitely getting calls from other states and legislators from around the country. Our legislation has become a model being viewed and considered in Nevada and a few other states about what they want to incorporate, what they want to make better, what they want to take out. And that again is very, very common on any issue. The states are this experiment of democracy and federalism that we parse these things out. I think your point about Khullani Abdullahi (35:15.469) and pray. Rep. Bob Morgan (35:20.382) the national policy not being there and in fact, US government who's been very, very clear, increasingly clear, they don't want any regulation of AI at all. Khullani Abdullahi (35:31.19) No. And they tried to prevent even states from even attempting to regulate, right? Rep. Bob Morgan (35:36.427) That's right. That's right. And that's not going to go away. And so I think we are, we're starting to enter a territory where that tension is going to build because you have a very different philosophy about whether we should do anything at all. And if you accept that we should do something, how to do it is also different. There are states that are looking to create some regulation as opposed to a total ban. Others that want to go further in the restrictions and not just limited to mental health. These are things that are going to play out. Illinois is going to see. we will see how this implementation happens and what this looks like. We're talking about the internet, we're talking about apps and systems that are global. It's not just Illinois's border. And just like anything, there will be unintended consequences, good and bad, about literally every bill that we pass, including this one. I think that given what we have done in Illinois, I'm really, comfortable about taking a pause here. Khullani Abdullahi (36:14.198) Right. Right. Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (36:35.2) and looking at how technology is going to continue to evolve and what impact we're going to have with regards to ending AI therapy bots here, but not elsewhere, right? Lawsuits, harm, support, there's going to be a lot of different things that happen just again in the coming months that I know I'm going to be paying very close attention to because I don't. Khullani Abdullahi (36:57.582) Mm-hmm. Rep. Bob Morgan (37:01.949) have pride of ownership here. would never say, I've never said that any bill I've ever passed is the best ever. It has to evolve. We have to learn from these challenges, but I think it was the right choice. Khullani Abdullahi (37:07.086) and bright, right? Khullani Abdullahi (37:12.494) Right. And to your point about litigation will continue to reveal the boundaries of liability, the harms and those responsibility frameworks that will continue to emerge. And that will continue to inform, I think, the evolution of this bill across the country. As we think about the federalism issues, Illinois has clearly and the Pritzker's government, you've all stood up and said yes. We are state and we intend to regulate AI as it intersects with these different industries that we care about and that we prioritize. Two questions. How are you thinking about, what is it that makes Illinois courageous enough, bold enough to kind of set that tone nationally? And then what is unique about our state that permits that? And then second. What do you think you and your colleagues will prioritize next as you think about AI? Because as a general purpose technology, to your point, it will intersect with education and labor negotiations and education funding, And surveillance and law enforcement. And so there will be a time where there is an AI component to every bill or topic or problem that you and your colleagues address. And so what do you see if we have this conversation two years from now? What do you think and how do think you and your colleagues will be thinking about that? And then the first part was, what is it about Illinois that has kind of put us in the vanguard of states' rights when it comes to AI and regulation, which also makes us a target on the national level? So I'd love for you to share your thoughts on that. Rep. Bob Morgan (39:01.007) This does come up literally on a daily basis and certainly not just in the AI context. Credit to Governor Pritzker. I know that there were entities that were pressuring him not to support this legislation and sign it, believe it or not, and he chose to sign it. I think that's reflective of his position about protecting Illinois, but also this is somebody who helped found a number and do a number of tech startups in Chicago. country. You can say a lot about Governor Pritzker. One of the things you have to acknowledge is he understands business and startups and tech. He's a pretty avid reader and he is really into this space. Probably more than the vast majority of governors in the country. Maybe not any governor, but almost every. It's a space that he's really comfortable in and one he cares about a lot. And then Illinois has Khullani Abdullahi (39:36.012) Yeah. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (39:45.744) Cut. Khullani Abdullahi (39:52.002) Right. Yeah. Rep. Bob Morgan (40:00.23) undergone, if I trace my time in state government as the entire spectrum here from 2010 to 2025, Illinois had a big swing when we had a particular governor, Bruce Rauner, who really shut down state government. We saw the impact of that, the human impact on that, the fiscal impact on that. And we've gone through the swing of what does Illinois do as a state? Khullani Abdullahi (40:06.702) you Rep. Bob Morgan (40:29.192) where the choices we make at state government, what happens if Illinois state government falls by the wayside and can't do its job and the actual impact of that. That's still fresh in my mind and I know a lot of people in the state of Illinois when their schools were closed, when their healthcare provider or personal aid didn't get paid and no longer could care for them. You you go down that list. Our mental health beds in particular that we used to have a lot more inpatient mental health beds, psych beds. The reason we don't anymore is because Illinois went through almost four years without a state budget. And we're still recovering from that now seven years later. In this current context, you could not be more stark with the federal government versus Illinois government and its philosophies. That's been building over a while now. Every time you have a flip of a Democrat to Republican from Khullani Abdullahi (41:01.998) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (41:19.351) Right. Rep. Bob Morgan (41:24.59) not just Illinois government, but also federal government, you see a lot of that. But I do think that it's a very deliberate choice from the state of Illinois, whether it's reproductive rights or health care policy or education policy. We are making very deliberate choices that sometimes are directly opposed to the Fed. Today, we are seeing what's happening. represent part of the district as the Naval Base, the Great Lakes Naval Base. federal property, of course, being used at the moment, at this moment in time to stage National Guard troops to conduct ICE raids and a variety of other actions. Our state has taken a very different policy approach to that. So we are as explicit and actual contrast and tensions between the federal and state government as you can get. Khullani Abdullahi (42:01.634) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (42:05.046) Bye. Rep. Bob Morgan (42:22.319) As we sit here today, we talk about AI. This is just another one of those issues that we have apparently a very, different approach about whether government has a role in protecting citizens and those small narrow areas where AI is risking people's lives versus whether we should just let business figure it out. Khullani Abdullahi (42:40.878) whether we should just let this interfere? Yeah. I think it's important to acknowledge the level of independence and autonomy with which Governor Pritzker's office and the Illinois General Assembly operates because I'm sure there was a massive pressure campaign and it does take a degree of independence and autonomy to resist it and to make decisions in that the best interests of your constituents. We don't see Illinois representatives and elected officials giving people bars of gold and prostrating themselves. do, from a political standpoint, I do want to acknowledge that because these times are so intense and critical to be a member of a state and a citizen of a state where I don't see that. And I see, in fact, independence and autonomous thinking, even if the issue on one issue or another, I may disagree. I think that level of independence is extraordinary. so I wanna commend you and your colleagues for being one of the first, I think, legislative bodies in the world to effectively resist the billions that are going into AI and tech in general and making decisions for the safety of constituents. I do wanna give you a chance to share what you love about Illinois and how when you are not deep in the weeds of some legislation or another, how do you spend your time? What is it that has made this your home where you raised your family and did all of your education and now you serve the citizens of this state? Rep. Bob Morgan (44:29.272) I love Illinois. I think other than the really, really cold winters, which can be super crappy and cold, I really appreciate the, it's a very diverse state. We could talk about just Chicago, but Illinois is a very big state with a lot of different communities and challenges and strengths that you can't find anywhere else. Khullani Abdullahi (44:37.358) Thank Rep. Bob Morgan (44:54.791) so I, I've always felt comfortable here grew up, as I mentioned to you earlier in the south suburbs of Chicago, now living in the north suburbs. I've spent almost my entire life living here. and knowing a lot about other states, I still put Illinois up against any other state and, we're, we're hardly perfect and we'll continue to work on that. But, I'm really grateful to be able to raise my family here. my two children, Khullani Abdullahi (45:11.246) I love it. Rep. Bob Morgan (45:23.759) probably would love to visit every other country and state, but also don't want to leave Illinois. And I think that that's because we provide these opportunities to define your own way and to pursue all these different careers and opportunities and lifestyles that fit you and your needs. And you can't find that in a lot of states, in fact, fewer and fewer states that allow you to just be yourself. Khullani Abdullahi (45:27.854) That's amazing. Khullani Abdullahi (45:51.949) right. Rep. Bob Morgan (45:53.243) But that's pretty cool. so I love what we do in Illinois and supporting tech and startup. We have a huge and growing tech startup community here. It's been cultivated over a long, time across a number of different leaders in different periods of time. And Illinois is going to continue to be great, despite what you may read from a certain president of the United States. Khullani Abdullahi (45:54.412) I love that. Khullani Abdullahi (46:01.742) You do. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (46:18.958) Excellent. Thank you so much for taking the time, Representative Bob Morgan. To the AI in Chicago community, I'm sure you got your first behind the scenes look at how one of the first AI in healthcare bills in the world was passed. And so please connect with Representative Bob Morgan's office and continue to support his work throughout Illinois and in the 58th district. Thanks so much, everyone. Rep. Bob Morgan (46:42.779) Thank you, everyone.