How Chicago's Loop is Rewriting the Rules of Downtown with Michael Edwards

Khullani Abdullahi (00:00.581) Hello and welcome to the AI in Chicago Packet Cast. I'm your host Kalani Abdelahi, the founder of Techné AI, a Chicago-based AI governance risk compliance and strategy firm. AI in Chicago spotlights local operators, builders and thinkers, as well as policy and civic leaders who are thinking about applied AI from their home in Illinois, but with a global impact. Each episode delivers interesting practical stories and insights which empower leaders to understand AI and its use cases minus the hype. Today's episode is about AI. but not in the way that you might expect. This isn't a conversation about prompts or models or tools. Instead, we're asking a bigger question. What makes downtowns relevant in an age of AI and remote work? When office life is no longer the default and digital convenience keeps improving, what pulls people into shared physical spaces? And what does it take to rebuild vibrancy, trust, and economic momentum in the heart of a great city? Today, my guest is Michael Eddroyd. the president and CEO of the Chicago Loop Alliance. Michael has spent decades leading downtown organizations through multiple eras of change, from the clean and safe years to placemaking and public space, to making data meaningful, and now to a new vision for the Loop anchored in arts and culture. In this conversation, we'll explore what's changing, what's still true, and what civic and business leaders need to get right over the next few years, since the Loop and downtowns like it are going to thrive in the next chapter. Let's jump in with a bio of Michael Edwards, CEO of the Chicago Loop Alliance. Michael has led the Chicago Loop Alliance since 2012 and has spent decades guiding downtown organizations through multiple eras of urban change. So over the last 20 years, Michael's focused on downtown revitalization through retail and the traditional business district resurgence, public space and green space reinvention, and a more recent era focused on data interpretation. Khullani Abdullahi (02:03.495) not just metrics to think about the truth about progress in the city. And now potentially a pivot towards the loops future as an arts and culture district driven by the economic power of 90 plus arts organizations and the vibrancy they generate. operates at the intersection of city hall, civic institutions, private stakeholders, where outcomes depend on influence, relationships and credibility. Welcome Michael. Michael Martin Edwards (02:31.072) Hi, how are you? Khullani Abdullahi (02:32.609) Well, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. Before we dive in, I'd like to start with my guest origin stories. When they did a career day in school, you chose leadership of central business districts. How did you arrive at this point? Walk us through your career and journey, because it's not a career that people think about. Let's give people context and some facts. Michael Martin Edwards (02:35.182) Absolutely. Michael Martin Edwards (02:56.216) Sure. Michael Martin Edwards (02:59.82) That's true. Sure. So college graduate in political science and history. This is way back in the 80s. And decided that's not going to get me very far. So went to the University of Pittsburgh to get a degree in city management. Graduated when I was 24 and could not imagine negotiating a police contract with a, you know, municipality. Khullani Abdullahi (03:02.353) crowd, Khullani Abdullahi (03:17.986) set. Khullani Abdullahi (03:27.781) Right. Michael Martin Edwards (03:28.975) And so I kind of went on the economic development track and became the Main Street Manager, which is a historic preservation based small community downtown revitalization program. And I've just grown that over the years to a number of positions and have run business improvement districts in Buffalo, New York, Spokane, Washington, Pittsburgh, the Golden Triangle in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and now here in Chicago, the Chicago. Khullani Abdullahi (03:39.415) you Khullani Abdullahi (03:57.381) Excellent. I assume that the only answer to this question is yes, but the Chicago Business Improvement Community and District has been your favorite place, right, so far? Tell me more. Michael Martin Edwards (04:09.422) Of course, of course. Yes, but you know, it's funny, they're all the same. I've actually, I my wife, I tell my wife, even from the small town I was working in, the issues are almost exactly the same in every market. There, know, some are a little bit more about the problem with parking. Others are the problem with crime. The others are a problem with lack of RECA, but they're all the same. It's really the same job. So I'm probably not as smart as I think I am because I've been doing the same thing for 35 years. Khullani Abdullahi (04:28.645) Interesting. The world has forced you to change though, right? In a doubt. Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (04:41.078) Absolutely. yeah, yeah, lots of change. Yeah, for sure. Khullani Abdullahi (04:44.119) So I did a little bit of due diligence and I looked at the reports that the Chicago Loop Alliance produces, I, until this conversation and this interview, it never occurred to me to go dig in. So I'm thankful for that because I've learned something new about the city that I've lived in for 10 years. So it's clear that the loop punches above its geographic weight. So I have data that says the loop is less than half a percent of Chicago's geography, yet it generates Michael Martin Edwards (05:08.92) Mm-hmm. Khullani Abdullahi (05:13.975) nearly 15 % of the city's tax revenue, right? So it's very much a city-wide, county-wide issue, not just a niche issue. I thought this was interesting. So weekends appear to be the comeback story. Your reporting shows that weekend pedestrian traffic is at 116 % of the 2019 levels. And then state street traffic in particular is near or above pre-pandemic, depending on the day. Michael Martin Edwards (05:17.037) Correct. Yes. Michael Martin Edwards (05:23.66) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (05:44.718) looks like in Q2 2025 there were 19.6 million pedestrian impressions, which is insane. And weekends were even above 2019 levels. The one headwind appears to be commercial office vacancy, which dovetails with the rate at which people are actually back in the office. So it looks like we're still at 56%. Loop Office Occupancy in Q2 2025. So I just wanted to share a little bit of that data that I got from your Chicago Loop Alliance reports. What era are we in, right? You've gone through the broken windows, enforcement, placemaking, data storytelling. It's post pandemic, but it's 2026. Each era had like a clear issue. How are you thinking about this era? How should we orient ourselves? Michael Martin Edwards (06:40.91) Yeah, so you're absolutely right. And we've gone through all of those different eras. And I would say now that the era is that the downtown is more of a social district. I'm sure your listeners have heard of that. It's also a place for experiences. And so we actually have a number of businesses that are all about experiences. So we have the Museum of Illusions, right? These are small, small, you know, $25. probably in there for an hour maybe. We have the Harry Potter thing is here. We have these pop-ups that are all about experiences. We're gonna get some major experiences, of business oriented experiences coming to State Street. But from my perspective and what we do, we think the entire downtown is an experience. And way back in the 80s when they weren't. Khullani Abdullahi (07:13.274) you Michael Martin Edwards (07:37.133) received as safe and they weren't perceived as clean. The whole idea was to clean them up so that people, we would beat their expectation of the experience that they were going to have, impress them so much that they would come back. And I think now we're in the same place in terms of coming up with experiences that really create a memory for somebody that makes them want to connect with Chicago and come back to Chicago. Khullani Abdullahi (07:37.797) you Khullani Abdullahi (07:52.485) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (07:57.253) you Khullani Abdullahi (08:03.095) I love that. So something that I think your comments make me think about is what is the mechanism by which a Chicago Loop Alliance organization operates, right? And so something that might be helpful to think about is, you know, the Loop's vision and evolution towards this experience is great. at the CLA, who are you partnering with to make that vision a reality? Like on a day to day, week to week, quarter to quarter, year to year, who are you interfacing with? Who are you serving? Who are you talking to, interfacing with? Just so that people get a concrete understanding of the CLA as an organization and the mission. Michael Martin Edwards (08:42.446) Sure. Yep. So we have a board of directors of 47. They're across about 12 different sectors. They include members of the city, largely city, not political city people, but bureaucratic city people who are terrific. We work with each department. Khullani Abdullahi (08:49.913) Okay. Michael Martin Edwards (09:10.095) the ones that kind of make downtown happen. So the Department of Sanitation, the Police Department, the Department of Development, Department of Family and Social Services, because we have social service issues downtown. And so a lot of different people, and our job is to, through relationship building, kind of get them all moving in the same direction for the benefit of the Chicago Loop Alliance. How we do that, or one of the ways we do that is through what's called a special service area, your listeners might know them better as business improvement districts. so State Street, largely State Street, generates about $4 million a year that we use to enhance the level of service, clean, safe, marketing, fun, events. Khullani Abdullahi (09:59.235) Thanks for watching! Michael Martin Edwards (10:00.94) And that gives us position so that we can then go in and leverage relationships with the city to get a little bit more police service on this particular day. Or could you please clean these alleys or could you fix the sidewalk? Because we're also part of the city, small part of the city. Khullani Abdullahi (10:10.418) Right. I love that. If someone wanted to be involved in CLA or join the board, what are you looking for? Who are the kinds of Chicago leaders, residents of Chicago who can and should or maybe get involved? And what kinds of contributions are you looking for from them? Michael Martin Edwards (10:43.95) So that is a great question. It's a really interesting time for groups like ours, or maybe it's just my age, but Chicago Looper Alliance has been around for a long time. And so we have some board members that have been on our board, and these are typically property owners, more typically in the past, property owners or major banks or lawyer offices or major tenants downtown. That's evolved over time, but we... Khullani Abdullahi (10:49.093) you Khullani Abdullahi (10:54.789) you Khullani Abdullahi (10:59.316) Okay. Michael Martin Edwards (11:10.326) still have people that have been on our board for 25 years. And they're fantastic. know where we've been. They have strong opinions on where we should go. But at the same time, there's all this new energy. so we have younger board members that have joined us from new companies, newer companies. And we just created, because we know this is an issue, we just created an associate board, which is made up of people from, they can't be older than 40 and they have to Khullani Abdullahi (11:11.973) Okay. Khullani Abdullahi (11:19.983) Yes. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (11:35.788) Excellent. Michael Martin Edwards (11:40.43) They have to be new to the board, new to Chicago, newer to the Chicago loop. And so we're going to have this, we got a way now to sort of begin to mix generations so that we're relevant going forward. Khullani Abdullahi (11:42.405) Okay. Okay. Yes. And are able to tackle that. I love that. think associate boards can be so compelling, especially because then you, know, in the workplace, we are seeing generational. Michael Martin Edwards (11:57.922) Yes. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (12:06.795) we're seeing I think three generations, four generations all still in the workforce at the same time. So one of the, in our pre-recording conversation, you suggested something that I think is really interesting that Michael Martin Edwards (12:09.868) Yes. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (12:22.275) I'd love to pick your brain on again, which is a lot of central business districts have anchored themselves into the pre-pandemic timeframe. And there's notions and narratives around getting back. But something that I think you shared was that we shouldn't necessarily be pegging ourselves to one era and using that as the main measure of success. And so as you think about the loop, How important is it for, just from a metric standpoint, for us to get back to 2019, whether it's office occupancy or the lunch rush hour, if someone tells you... that in five years office occupancy would still be in the 50 to 60 percent range indefinitely. What does that really mean? What mental model do you have to kind of think about what the loop's continued success looks like? Michael Martin Edwards (13:26.134) That's a tough question. mean, we're anticipating that office will come back to about 75%. It'll never be the same. And you may have recalled this during the pandemic, but it takes about 90 days for people's behavior to actually change. And so we have still a lot of work to do. There's many people that still would prefer to work at home. My own staff, in many ways, Khullani Abdullahi (13:34.447) Okay. Okay. Khullani Abdullahi (13:45.093) Thanks Michael Martin Edwards (13:53.784) prefer to work at home, but as the downtown organization, it seems to me that we sort of need to be here. So I think, you know, before the pandemic, was sort of, of course I have to drive an hour and a half to go to work because my work is downtown. So we have to make downtown even more compelling and give people more reasons to come downtown because it's like, we worked from home last Friday, cause it was, so I didn't want staff to come in because it was just so cold. Khullani Abdullahi (14:03.909) you Khullani Abdullahi (14:07.545) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (14:23.757) Yes. Michael Martin Edwards (14:24.431) So I think think downtowns have to work harder to get a broader array of people besides office workers to come downtown in order to have enough people to feed the restaurants and the retail and the public transit that is so important to our city. Khullani Abdullahi (14:40.997) And as we think about what it means to attract that population. So 75 % occupancy, what was it pre pandemic? Was it the high 80s? Michael Martin Edwards (14:54.414) Well, the interesting thing is nobody really ever measured it before the pandemic. In terms of human occupancy, mean, they would say our building is 96 % leased, but you still didn't know how many people. So I think some of the lack of back to work is a little overblown because Fridays in Chicago, pre-pandemic, it's a financial center, it's filled with financial lawyers. Khullani Abdullahi (15:00.919) interesting. Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (15:07.715) Yeah, but how many people come every day? Interesting. Khullani Abdullahi (15:15.269) Thank Michael Martin Edwards (15:23.374) professional people that have the option of, probably have had the option to work from home or to work from their cabin, you know, for much longer than the pandemic has revealed. So I think we were probably, when we were at full capacity, 375,000 people, we were probably 75 to 80 % human occupancy. Yeah, so I think it's bad. I mean, it's negative. It's certainly impacting the value of properties. Khullani Abdullahi (15:29.645) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (15:44.229) Yeah, on the video. Michael Martin Edwards (15:52.953) But I don't think from people on the street, we still have a lot of pedestrian activity. Khullani Abdullahi (15:55.725) Right, So. If it's the case that in-person work and foot traffic is kind of permanently reduced in the loop and in other central business districts, and if it's also the case that I think from your reporting, office workers do fund and subsidize retail, restaurants, and the entire service ecosystem associated with central business districts, is there a potential replacement economic model where we give people reason to be downtown because they're living there, right? Like, do we shift from this focus on... coming to the loop for work to a scenario in which you are already in the loop and therefore partaking in retail restaurants and the service ecosystem because even if you work remotely, you live there. And so as we think about repurposing buildings, I know a lot of this can be very expensive and commercial real estate is not in my wheelhouse. How are we thinking about some of the replacement economics associated with this? Michael Martin Edwards (16:48.674) Yes. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (17:09.783) reduce foot traffic, and then this movement towards living and working and walking and yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (17:18.199) Yes. So the loop is two square miles. So it's a little bit too big to be a walkable neighborhood, a 15 minute neighborhood, right? But there are pockets within it. We have the fastest growing, we have been the fastest growing urban neighborhood in America for the last 15 years since I've been here. So there's 145,000 people that live in the loop. And that is enough to support a full service grocery store. Khullani Abdullahi (17:26.085) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (17:39.461) is that? What? Okay. Michael Martin Edwards (17:46.913) Problem is those grocery stores have already been built in each of the corners of the loop. And so I'm not sure we're going to get one anytime soon. I think the residential is sort of the key. so we need to, again, we need to make downtown really, really compelling. And one of the things that we all have learned during the pandemic is the value of time. So if you want to recruit an employee, Khullani Abdullahi (17:53.647) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (18:01.849) Mm-hmm. Khullani Abdullahi (18:13.295) Yes. Michael Martin Edwards (18:16.142) to work in the loop. You better make it so compelling that they're either, the office experience should be so compelling that they don't mind driving an hour from their home or so compelling that they want to live and they, and then the economics beyond downtown, the economics of owning a car and insurance and everything else. If you don't have a $600 a month car payment, Khullani Abdullahi (18:31.129) That they move. Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (18:45.121) you can probably afford two or $300,000 more for a condominium downtown. And people are doing the math and they're realizing that the living, working experience can kind of be combined. Early on in the pandemic, we talked about buildings, like one half of the building would be office and the other half of the building would be living. Like you could just walk out your door and across the hall and you're kind of in your company's space. Khullani Abdullahi (18:51.513) Yeah. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (18:57.911) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (19:08.153) Yeah, yes. Michael Martin Edwards (19:13.023) And we've had this profusion of spaces where people just go to work. Like right now we can go to a place called Workbox on Wednesdays and have this beautifully amenity space and do our work there. And we're doing that. Khullani Abdullahi (19:18.533) you Khullani Abdullahi (19:27.129) Right. I love that. I think the emphasis on residential I think is so key because then you don't have to... only make a compelling case to the folks in Naperville or Hinsdale or the North, on the North Side who now have a two and a half hour commute, wrong trip. On a daily basis, you can offset some of that with people who are already kind of in the loop. So is there a version where are we seeing And I will say this even for myself, I definitely spend a lot more time in the loop when it's nice outside, right? So I see this vibrancy that explodes in Chicago come after post St. Patrick's Day all the way through think Halloween. Is there a version where we're seeing people... maybe not come on a daily basis, but that when they do come, they're spending more time and more money per visit? Or is that just kind of not supported by the data? Michael Martin Edwards (20:39.509) No, I think that that, I mean, that I think it is supported by the And I think that that's our job. The Chicago Loop Alliance and groups like ours across the country, Times Square Alliance, Grand Central Partnership in New York, all of us, we need to extend the stay and provide a wide variety of things for people to do. On our website, there's itineraries. So a shopping itinerary, an eating itinerary to give people some sense. Because if you're coming from Iowa for a visit, it's kind of confusing to come for the loop, right? Khullani Abdullahi (20:48.665) Right. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (21:04.271) you Right. It is. Right. Michael Martin Edwards (21:09.378) But the great thing about Chicago is it's a grid. It's really easy to navigate. It's not like a lot of cities that are a little bit more difficult to navigate. But our job is to extend that stay and extend the amount of opportunities for people to have a great time and spend money. Khullani Abdullahi (21:21.465) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (21:28.057) Right, right. I have. I don't know if you remember this, but I grew up in Minnesota and I remember when Jesse Ventura was our governor. I think it was on some evening show and he was making fun of St. Paul. St. Paul, where I grew up, and the Twin Cities, we are not on a grid. You have to be from there to be able to effectively navigate. There's no grid. I know Ashland is $1,600 or whatever it is. I don't actually know. But there is no way to orient yourself easily. just as an aside, he blamed the Irish who built the streets in the Twin Cities. So I don't know who built the, and he got in so much trouble, but he was a former wrestler, I think. So no one expected him to actually win governorship, but he was hilarious. And I remember being student body president of my high school and he came to speak. so the Twin Cities are not on a grid, but Chicago is. And I think being able to help people orient themselves. Michael Martin Edwards (22:13.847) Yeah, he was. Khullani Abdullahi (22:30.215) so that when they do come, they spend more time and more money. I think it's really key. Michael Martin Edwards (22:31.022) Yes. Right. mean, experience of the loop, I mean, we have really good, hard urban edges. We have two river, the river and the south branch of the Chicago River on our north and west sides. We have the park and we have the Lakeshore Drive or what was called Lakeshore Drive. And so it's a very defined area and it's easy for people to get their heads around. And cities that are like that are People are more comfortable there because their experience, they sort of can control their experience. On the other side, cities like London that are, you know, even the taxi drivers, you know, maybe don't know where they are. Those are cities that are exciting because they're so mysterious, because it's not quite so out Khullani Abdullahi (23:10.394) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (23:15.807) discovery. Yeah. It's interesting. There's a study done on London cab drivers where their hippocampus is actually larger because it's so difficult to navigate that it actually like adds, you know, weight to their brain, I thought that was interesting. what would you, so you've, sit in a lot of rooms where you have tenants and building owners, retailers, city officials. Michael Martin Edwards (23:24.056) yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (23:45.177) you know, people who work in the loop. What would you say is one assumption that people have, that they're operating on, that you think we should discard? Michael Martin Edwards (23:58.671) that cities are unsafe. The loop specifically, the city of Chicago, there's a lot of political things associated with a narrative around how crime-murdered cities in general are, and Chicago gets lumped into that. It's just not true. And you can't convince folks because of some of these things that we are Khullani Abdullahi (24:01.729) So tell me more. Khullani Abdullahi (24:16.57) Right. Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (24:27.746) really interested in utilizing and that is, I people get their news from their social media feed and some of those social media feeds, their algorithm points them in a certain direction. It's just not helpful and it's sort of self-defeating. Like you might feel good sending some post out about something that happened in the loop, good for you, but that affects a lot of other people. In fact, a lot of other people's livelihood because people are less Khullani Abdullahi (24:32.911) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (24:38.595) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (24:43.993) Yeah. Yes. Yep. Right. Michael Martin Edwards (24:57.986) So we are pushing against that by providing sort of good news, you will, factually based good news about what's going on. mean, does crime happen? Absolutely. Is there people doing something about it? Every month, we meet with 60 people to kind of talk about how we can make that not happen again. Khullani Abdullahi (25:03.203) Right. Yes. Yeah. to make it safer. And I think your point is, I take your point very well. It's well taken because Chicago operates, and Chicago's reputation operates in the larger context of the United States of America. And it gets singled out a lot nationally and regionally. Michael Martin Edwards (25:32.046) it does. Michael Martin Edwards (25:40.771) Yep. Khullani Abdullahi (25:41.453) My own family was growing up in the Midwest. Everyone thinks that you can't go anywhere in Chicago or take public transportation or that you will get shot, right? And so it's not until people come and actually spend time that they're able, that we're able to shift that narrative. Michael Martin Edwards (25:50.978) Great. Khullani Abdullahi (26:02.679) But shifting that narrative so that even people from downstate Illinois and our neighboring states are more comfortable in the city and in the loop is really key. What could we be doing better and who should be doing it to systematically and strategically combat this perception about the loop and the city of Chicago? Michael Martin Edwards (26:27.625) So we convened a group, there's about 60 of us, and this came out of in September when the National Guard came to Chicago and all of that stuff that was happening a little bit north of Chicago and some of that activity. And that created, just as we were kind of getting over the local narrative that downtown was unsafe, crime was down, those messages were going out. the National Guard came and then our governor and our mayor, you know, became very anti all of that, which created a lot more discussion about what's going on in Chicago and created more response from the White House. And so our group is now together to try to combat that now national narrative about Chicago. so Choose Chicago is our big tourist and visitor group. Khullani Abdullahi (27:03.973) Right. Michael Martin Edwards (27:25.942) And so they have a program called For the Love of Chicago. I think that's what it, something like that. I'm sorry. I think that's it. And the idea is for people like you and me just to do our own little 15 second TikTok about, boy, it's really horrible here and just show these beautiful views of what's actually happening. And to kind of not poke fun, but just try to provide some reality. So the use of technology, social media, AI, Khullani Abdullahi (27:31.449) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (27:41.49) beautiful views. Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (27:55.385) These are all things that we are moving towards. And we do some of that already, but we need to learn to do more. Khullani Abdullahi (27:56.889) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (28:03.429) Excellent. There's a lot of work that I think organizations like yours do to build the identity and feel of a space, of a contained space. But neighborhoods and identities take decades to kind of form organically. As you think about the 2030s and beyond for the loop, Michael Martin Edwards (28:10.989) Yes. Michael Martin Edwards (28:23.363) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (28:30.469) Do you have a vision in your mind of the kind of people that will be living and working and shopping in and eating in the loop? Who's that new loop resident that we're going to rely on for kind of this residential push or innovation for the loop? What characteristics, why will they be coming? What kind of work might they be doing? is there going to be a place for artists, right? So we talk about art and culture being very important for the revitalization of central business districts, but we also know they get priced out, right? And so what are we doing to ensure that they can live and work in the community where they're sharing their artistic brilliance? just kind of what does that look like? Michael Martin Edwards (29:18.307) Right. Right. So I think the demographics of our sectors of employment downtown will remain a global city. And as a global city, we'll continue to have lawyers, we'll continue to have finance, insurance, real estate kind of people that are very important to the future of the loop. But with the arrival of Google and The success that 1871, our tech incubator, has had and still continues to have, but not at that location. There is quantum coming to the south. And the 240,000 students that we have graduating from all of our area colleges, 55,000 of them in the loop itself. I think we're going to have innovation because of AI, because of quantum, and because Google's coming. Khullani Abdullahi (30:04.25) Right. Michael Martin Edwards (30:12.291) we're gonna attract a lot more tech workers into the loop. They'll probably be younger because they actually know how to do these things. But we're still gonna need, you know, we're still gonna need lawyers, we're still gonna need intellectual property kind of work. So I think all of that, it'll just be a new mix. Hopefully those will be good paying jobs that can afford to live here. So right now, Khullani Abdullahi (30:15.085) Right. Excellent. Right. Khullani Abdullahi (30:25.583) Yeah. Yes. Right. Right. Michael Martin Edwards (30:38.211) you need to make $80,000 a year if you want to rent a one bedroom apartment in the loop. So there's a bit of a disconnect between what we want things to be in terms of people living here. And at the same time, we want it to be open to everybody. You mentioned artists. We really want makers, innovators, creative people to be part and feel welcome in the loop. And so we're hoping that in this two square miles, there may be Khullani Abdullahi (30:41.893) Right. Right. Michael Martin Edwards (31:05.368) districts, if you will, that are a little bit more arts heavy and then others that are a little bit more residential, a little bit more office mixed, but maybe separated slightly. Khullani Abdullahi (31:08.389) Mm-hmm. Khullani Abdullahi (31:15.651) Yeah. there a way, is there a model that cities use to subsidize housing for artists in particular or musicians? Okay, so what does that look like? they, is it kind of like, do they build the buildings themselves and own them? how do you, is it incentives for tax for real estate developers? What would be a potential model? Michael Martin Edwards (31:29.826) Yeah. Hmm Michael Martin Edwards (31:43.15) So we had a program years ago when I first got here, it was called Art Loop Open. And this was after the great recession of the great financial whatever, 2008. so we put artists in vacant spaces up and down State Street, maybe four five different spaces on an evening. And they would do their art, show their art, sell their art. We would serve beer and wine and give people a map. And the idea was to kind of go around the loop and frequent these places. Khullani Abdullahi (31:51.353) crisis. Khullani Abdullahi (31:55.631) you Khullani Abdullahi (32:01.441) Thank you. Khullani Abdullahi (32:06.831) Wow. Michael Martin Edwards (32:12.557) that revealed the space's capacity to provide economic opportunity and eventually those got filled up. So going forward on State Street, all these vacancies that we have south of Monroe, I mean, we envision city incentives that might create, for example, a white box in a former retail space where we could put 10 to 15 makers that are actually making their art, pottery, painting, Khullani Abdullahi (32:19.82) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (32:34.799) Yeah. Khullani Abdullahi (32:39.205) Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Michael Martin Edwards (32:42.251) candles, whatever, and selling them, creating a reason for people, something interesting for visitors, something needed for folks, and something helpful to the artists and makers themselves. that's sort of one of the ideas that we have for the future of State Street south of Monroe. And there's lots of these students down there. So a lot of them could be practicing. Khullani Abdullahi (33:02.543) That's it. Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (33:08.567) So I think that's amazing. I've been thinking a lot about like, knowledge sharing and knowledge transfer and knowledge dissemination. Because in a lot of the work that I do... I can't automate or use AI to augment a process that hasn't been fully extracted from the mind of the executives and the employees that I'm working with, right? So AI is a tool, but the domain and subject matter expertise is a lot of it is not documented, right? It's inside people's minds. It's in their inboxes. It's in their gut, right? It's in how they conduct themselves and the meaning, the questions that are important, et cetera. And so I think to the extent Michael Martin Edwards (33:50.797) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (33:52.571) that there are spaces on State Street, south of Monroe, that are open and that will be vacant for a long time and for which the... the owners of the lease, et cetera, are not going to receive any money in the short term. There's a ton of opportunities, I think, to donate that space so that we can ensure that, whether it's artificial intelligence or quantum or robotics or art, that we are building spaces and moments to ensure that knowledge is being transferred throughout Chicago's ecosystem for these really high-value sectors. And I think being able to do an entire evening where you do you learn about the latest AI tool and then being able to go have wine and purchase a painting or pottery. think being able to bridge both the business and the artistic in these vacant spaces I think is a really great opportunity. Michael Martin Edwards (34:52.651) Yeah, I think you're right. think we should do something called Future Cities. was sort of a four quarter, we'd bring experts in to talk about something about and try to imagine the future city. This is before the pandemic. And those were always well attended. People had lots of ideas and it's something we should probably get back to. It's not planned, but that's something we should get back to. everybody's just exchanging knowledge. So we would have two experts on a particular topic. And then we'd bring somebody in from some place, know, some totally unrelated downtown person that would then react to what they just said and how that might affect them. So that's a really great idea. Khullani Abdullahi (35:37.189) but I know we've talked about kind of the two key opportunities for the Chicago loop to kind of in the future remain relevant to continue to grow and to prosper. And one is kind of a greater emphasis on residents who live and work in the loop. So we don't even have to worry about commuter traffic. And then another is this emphasis on arts and culture. So we have 90, according to your own reporting, about 90 different arts organizations in the loop. They do generate a lot of cultural vibrancy. and museums and galleries, how do we turn an evening experience into a weekend experience? Do you have any data or thoughts or reflections on the amount of time people are spending when they come for art and then what it would mean for us to kind of expand that so that it's an experience so that even if you live in the city and you go into the loop for art district or if you live in Illinois and you go for an arts event that you think, I'll stay for the evening grab a hotel room and I'll have brunch the next day and just and make it something more than just three hours in the loop in a show and then you uber back out. Michael Martin Edwards (36:57.186) Yep. Well, last quarter, the fourth quarter of 2025, 1.2 million people came down for arts and culture. We tracked this, and they spent $512 million downtown in one quarter. we know that's true. We did a study in 2019 and Khullani Abdullahi (37:12.973) in one quarter. Michael Martin Edwards (37:23.021) that tracks with the numbers that we had in in sense of overall economic impact of arts and culture just in the loop on the Chicago area. So I think that's happening. And again, we try to package these itineraries and give people the idea to do more. So it depends on, know, if it's Hamilton coming or here, you you might get people to stay over, do the whole dinner thing. A lot of our customers, this is really unusual in Chicago, arts and culture, they come down an average of five times a year for arts and culture. In most markets, people go to the theater one time a year. And so these are repeat folks, they're used to coming downtown. We just have to make it as safe and clean and approachable as we possibly can. Khullani Abdullahi (38:06.667) once. Right? Michael Martin Edwards (38:17.73) So we have these 90 arts organizations. Currently it's being called the Arts Caucus. we're trying to get, know, artists are unique individuals. They all have their own thought. They all have different mediums that they work in. And so we're trying to kind of figure out if there's an alignment so that we could make an offering to the community. And I'm totally making this up. So maybe it's Art Week. Khullani Abdullahi (38:43.897) Right. Michael Martin Edwards (38:44.013) And during our week, you're gonna wanna stay overnight a couple times because Tuesday, I'm making this up, Tuesday's dance and Thursday's opera and Wednesday something else. You may wanna stay for the whole thing. Khullani Abdullahi (38:52.803) Yeah, right. Yeah, I love it. Before I moved to Chicago, I lived in Florida. Chicago is, course, and Illinois is much better state and city. But I will say there are two events in Miami that I think we should not concede to Miami. One is the Miami International Book Fair, and the other is Art Basel. And there is no reason that Chicago should not have. two pinnacle events in books and in art. Everyone in Chicago loves to read. I live in Wicker Park. We are very militant about going to the small bookstores, right, even though Barnes and Noble just opened up. And we read comics and we love art and we love music. We're the third largest city in America. Our downtown is stunning in a way that the central business district in Miami, even though they have the ocean, is not. There's no reason that we shouldn't. have an international book fair and comic fair anchored in Illinois. There's no reason that we shouldn't have an international art fair anchored in Illinois and in Chicago. And there's no reason that with all of these vacant buildings on State Street that we shouldn't be hosting. electronic sports competitions. So we know that when we think about like the games of the future and we think about first person shooting games, these are professional kids who are making tens of millions of dollars in these teams and they have fans, they have sponsors, but they don't have a space. So like if every summer Illinois and the Luke Chicago instead Michael Martin Edwards (40:22.989) Those are great ideas. Khullani Abdullahi (40:48.825) an international e-sports competition. I think the amount of people that we would draw that is, I think, a different group of individuals. It would also allow us to capture young people and have a recurring event. And so I think having these large anchors and the space can rotate. I think there's just a ton of value in kind of... Michael Martin Edwards (40:58.273) Yeah, that's great. Michael Martin Edwards (41:12.726) I agree. Khullani Abdullahi (41:13.037) not conceding these kinds of events. So that's my vote, Michael. I know you didn't think that was going to happen during this conversation, but I have a wish list. So I'd love to know what gives you real optimism? I know that you had this multi-decade career. Michael Martin Edwards (41:17.272) Yeah, okay, I wrote that down. I wrote that down. Khullani Abdullahi (41:33.615) What are you really optimistic about when it comes to downtowns, both the loop here and beyond? Where do you think we'll be able to really thrive? And what decision points are coming up that you think that we need to get right as a city and as a state to ensure the longevity and prosperity of the loop? Michael Martin Edwards (41:53.399) Well, I think that Chicago as a city and the Loop in particular, I mean, there is this generational transfer of vision. I mean, I've been in the game for 35 years and I've seen it evolve over time. And I still feel like I'm part of that. But you just said e-sports, like we should have e-sports. That's a new thought for me. to have a, I'm hopeful that downtowns will Khullani Abdullahi (42:02.01) Right. Khullani Abdullahi (42:16.921) Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (42:23.341) You know, well, I know that they will continue to thrive. They're one of the greatest creations of mankind. It's where we all come together to exchange information. And I think the new generation is just going to make it even better in lots of different ways. Khullani Abdullahi (42:37.349) that gives you hope. So you are finishing a major chapter in your career. It's been announced. I read about it in the Cranes and the Chicago Business Journal. So I will ask you about it. You're finishing a major chapter at the end of March. Decades of navigating city hall, business coalitions, public perception, urban reinvention, financial crisis, and a pandemic. If you could go back and tell your younger self one thing. Michael Martin Edwards (42:43.116) I am. Michael Martin Edwards (42:52.471) Yeah. Michael Martin Edwards (42:56.684) those. Khullani Abdullahi (43:06.149) 20 years ago that took you two decades or more to learn. What kind of insights and feedback would you share? Michael Martin Edwards (43:15.225) Well, I feel like I'm one of the fortunate ones that, I mean, it took me a while to kind of recognize this, I have not thought about a paycheck in years, like in decades. I've heard that you need three things to be happy in life. I'm sorry, two of three things to be happy in life, great place to live, friends and family, and a job that you love. And I've been fortunate in my career to have all of those in all of the markets that I've worked in. And so what I would say is just take a step back and realize what you have and what you're able to impact on the difference that you can make. And if you are loving that, just keep doing it. Just keep doing it. Khullani Abdullahi (43:57.349) Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate you taking the time to let us pick your brain and learn more about central business districts. As you think of the coming wave of quantum and AI and things moving faster than ever, any final thoughts for Chicago and Chicago's leaders and elected officials on ensuring Chicago's future prosperity? Michael Martin Edwards (44:23.295) Well, I think that things are coming faster. There's lots of ways to, there's lots of ways for us as a downtown organization to better position the loop as a destination and a place for investment. think DEI is something that we've really embraced and something we want the loop to be everyone's neighborhood. It's been a little older, it's been a little whiter, it's been a little wealthier. Khullani Abdullahi (44:36.28) you Michael Martin Edwards (44:51.927) to be able to, the pandemic has given us both the realization and the opportunity to share some of that with a broader part of Chicagoland. So we don't really like this notion that there's downtown and then there's the neighborhoods. If we were surrounded by green, vibrant neighborhoods where families that live there have daycare for their kids, that they can walk to work, you we would be a spectacular Khullani Abdullahi (45:00.505) Yes. Khullani Abdullahi (45:08.325) you Michael Martin Edwards (45:20.757) even a more spectacular downtown and city than we are right now. So I'm very hopeful. I think the future is like super bright, super bright. Khullani Abdullahi (45:24.313) Thank Khullani Abdullahi (45:28.453) Thank you so much. Michael, I really appreciate you the time to share all of this with us. The episode will be available on Spotify and everywhere you can get podcasts. And if you haven't, check out the Chicago Loop Alliance. They have some really great detailed reports and some guides that you can share with visiting family and friends on what to do when they visit our great city. Thanks and chat soon. Chicagoloop.com. And connect with Michael on LinkedIn. He's going to have a lot of time on his hands. So if you need him on a board, if you need him to vomit, Michael Martin Edwards (45:51.671) ChicagoLoop.com. Khullani Abdullahi (46:01.469) here come April 1st hit him up with the offer. Thanks everyone and talk to you guys soon. Michael Martin Edwards (46:07.064) Thank you, Kalani.